Widnes Weekly News today

[Paul D]

According to today's WWN we are currently in advanced talks to sign Danny Speakman from Liegh, old news I know but we are also monitoring the situation of an as yet un-named half back and another centre.  We hope to be in a situation to make an announcement soon.

[vikings 4 ever]

To be honest I think the Weekly News has been pretty thin on actual news since the new owners came in. It seemed when SV was here the paper would get exclusives and he'd use it to send a message to the fans and all too often the Weekly News happy to go with negative stories. I think the last 4 weeks have consisted of "searching for players" "still searching for players" "faith in youth" and now "we might be signing someone". Despite dreading what I would find on the back page, I used to think the Weely News was a good source of info - not anymore it seems.

[alanC]

To be honest I think we are in real trouble as far as signing any decent players are concerned, I am not saying its through lack of effort on anyone's part but we would appear to be struggling now with the nrc starting very soon.

[Tin Man]

Looking at the squad we are desperate for two more half-backs so an announcement must be due soon.

[cheadleviking]

I would rather no news to be honest rather than having to pay for a printout of a story comsisting of posts from this site.  You may have a point about SV though seems like WWN was his puppet to do all the dirty work!

[John S]

To be honest I think we are in real trouble as far as signing any decent players are concerned, I am not saying its through lack of effort on anyone's part but we would appear to be struggling now with the nrc starting very soon.

But that was always going to be the case due to our off the field problems.  Lets hope there are going to be one or two others before the start of the league season but the NRC must be used as a build up to the main event and lets hope we can play as many games as possible in this comp to work on any deficiencies and enhance what we have.

[GM]

To be honest I think we are in real trouble as far as signing any decent players are concerned, I am not saying its through lack of effort on anyone's part but we would appear to be struggling now with the nrc starting very soon.

Not true - You have no real idea of what stage anything is at, because, for once and finally, the club is run in a much more professional way and Fred Bloggs, the gate-keeper's mate, isn't repeating something that the doorman told the gate keeper that somebody who works for a sponsor was told by his cleaner who was told by a sponsor, who was told by a committeeman in confidence after a few jars!

There are about 7 or 8 weeks before theleague  season starts, so why do we have to name players today? We are NEGOTIATING! Most clubs do that in private, behind closed doors.
As for WWN - I suspect they are not number 1 favourites having broken an embargo on publishing the new kit, in an attempt to take the wind out of the sails of the new owners. Why? They seem not to realise that locals are not as concerned about 'exclusives' as they are about the local paper supporting the team. I can think of plenty of none rugby 'exclusives' they could have had about local businesses and people that they have refused to touch with a barge pole (too dangerous). I wouldn't blame Widnes if they never gave them a fact again.

[trotty]

Well said Gary

[johnf]

Not true - You have no real idea of what stage anything is at, because, for once and finally, the club is run in a much more professional way and Fred Bloggs, the gate-keeper's mate, isn't repeating something that the doorman told the gate keeper that somebody who works for a sponsor was told by his cleaner who was told by a sponsor, who was told by a committeeman in confidence after a few jars!

There are about 7 or 8 weeks before theleague  season starts, so why do we have to name players today? We are NEGOTIATING! Most clubs do that in private, behind closed doors.
As for WWN - I suspect they are not number 1 favourites having broken an embargo on publishing the new kit, in an attempt to take the wind out of the sails of the new owners. Why? They seem not to realise that locals are not as concerned about 'exclusives' as they are about the local paper supporting the team. I can think of plenty of none rugby 'exclusives' they could have had about local businesses and people that they have refused to touch with a barge pole (too dangerous). I wouldn't blame Widnes if they never gave them a fact again.

I know what you are saying GM and agree that there appears to be a number of 'good things' going on at the club. The problem is that the logic you apply doesn't work for me. I agree that the club appears to be a tighter ship and that rumours from the 'car park attendant' appear to be a lot less since the new owner moved in but you can't say for definite that because there is no news (about signing) that it is a good sign - the club may well be negotiating with players (and we have to take them on trust - and so far they seem to be worth it) but I repeat the fact that they haven't said anything is neither a good or a bad sign - it just means that they haven't said anything.

John S's point is well put - with the trouble we had at the end of last season it was always going to be a struggle signing a squad (let alone a squad of good players) this year and this struggle was always to be expected. The fact that we are now seven weeks away from the serious stuff and have such a small squad is a genuine concern - you can't expect three or four players to rock up the week before the season starts and be ready to perform well - they have to have some idea of how the team is expected to play and the strengths and weaknesses of the other players in the squad - this just doesn't happen overnight. When all is said and done we have 19 players (currently) two of whom are on trial (and may not make the grade) and one on loan. If the same thing that happens with Harrison and Bracek last year was to happen with Hardman, and the two trialists don't make the grade we would be in a position whereby we couldn't fill a full team sheet with our senior squad members and that doesn't even start to consider loss of form or injuries. We don't have a recognised scrum half (let alone back-up) and we are extremely light in midfield - we need at least one half back (preferably two), two centres (preferably 3) and one utility back. I'm old enough and I hope sensible enough to realise that my ideal 6 signings may well not happen and I am prepared to live with that - as I said this year's squad was always going to be a struggle.

Ignoring the facts about the squad is only asking for trouble a bit later down the track - we need to face what we are up against in order to figure out how to overcome it.

Having said all that, the club is making great strides (I'd say off the field we have moved from the 1940's into this century in about 4 months - which is staggering given what has gone before). I'm encouraged by the retention of the Academy system and the fact that we have made some good signings. As I've said before, I suspect that we will 'over achieve' once the season gets going (based on my current estimation of a mid-table finish) and I also believe that the plan beng executed by our new owner stands a really good chance of earnng us a franchise (irrespective of where we finish in the leadue) - based on our potential and signs of a coherent business plan and the likelihood of us generating revenue for Sky. Time will tell.   

[cheadleviking]

I know what you are saying GM and agree that there appears to be a number of 'good things' going on at the club. The problem is that the logic you apply doesn't work for me. I agree that the club appears to be a tighter ship and that rumours from the 'car park attendant' appear to be a lot less since the new owner moved in but you can't say for definite that because there is no news (about signing) that it is a good sign - the club may well be negotiating with players (and we have to take them on trust - and so far they seem to be worth it) but I repeat the fact that they haven't said anything is neither a good or a bad sign - it just means that they haven't said anything.

John S's point is well put - with the trouble we had at the end of last season it was always going to be a struggle signing a squad (let alone a squad of good players) this year and this struggle was always to be expected. The fact that we are now seven weeks away from the serious stuff and have such a small squad is a genuine concern - you can't expect three or four players to rock up the week before the season starts and be ready to perform well - they have to have some idea of how the team is expected to play and the strengths and weaknesses of the other players in the squad - this just doesn't happen overnight. When all is said and done we have 19 players (currently) two of whom are on trial (and may not make the grade) and one on loan. If the same thing that happens with Harrison and Bracek last year was to happen with Hardman, and the two trialists don't make the grade we would be in a position whereby we couldn't fill a full team sheet with our senior squad members and that doesn't even start to consider loss of form or injuries. We don't have a recognised scrum half (let alone back-up) and we are extremely light in midfield - we need at least one half back (preferably two), two centres (preferably 3) and one utility back. I'm old enough and I hope sensible enough to realise that my ideal 6 signings may well not happen and I am prepared to live with that - as I said this year's squad was always going to be a struggle.

Ignoring the facts about the squad is only asking for trouble a bit later down the track - we need to face what we are up against in order to figure out how to overcome it.

Having said all that, the club is making great strides (I'd say off the field we have moved from the 1940's into this century in about 4 months - which is staggering given what has gone before). I'm encouraged by the retention of the Academy system and the fact that we have made some good signings. As I've said before, I suspect that we will 'over achieve' once the season gets going (based on my current estimation of a mid-table finish) and I also believe that the plan beng executed by our new owner stands a really good chance of earnng us a franchise (irrespective of where we finish in the leadue) - based on our potential and signs of a coherent business plan and the likelihood of us generating revenue for Sky. Time will tell.   

I have to agree with some of what your saying here however given the time before the season starts and considering the friendly against wigan and also the level of the competition against wigan do you not feel that it may be beneficial to play the team we have got next sunday, access which areas need strengthening and then confirm signings which are need and are a neccesity rather than just making up numbers.  I know for a fact that I like must fans would be gutted if we wasted the salary cap on a load of rushed signings that either didnt fit the bill or were just keeping the bench warm!

[johnf]

I have to agree with some of what your saying here however given the time before the season starts and considering the friendly against wigan and also the level of the competition against wigan do you not feel that it may be beneficial to play the team we have got next sunday, access which areas need strengthening and then confirm signings which are need and are a neccesity rather than just making up numbers.  I know for a fact that I like must fans would be gutted if we wasted the salary cap on a load of rushed signings that either didnt fit the bill or were just keeping the bench warm!

Being honest I would hope the game against Wigan and the NRC will act to confirm what the coaching staff already know. They are paid to do what they do and should be good at it. Mr McCormack, by and large, redeemed himself last season in the eyes of the Widnes fans and his stocks were boosted by his decision to return having left, so - for the moment at least - he has the popular sympathy vote. (On a different subject it will be interesting to see how this goes if the team are unable to match the feats of the team in the first half of last season this coming season - which, given the relative strength and size of this squad suggests they won't).

Part of my day job involves Risk Analysis - taking a process and identifying failures and weaknesses and working on plans to ideally remove but at least mitigate them. If you take our current squad and apply the basic logic I see us as having two, possibly three basic weaknesses :

- A small squad that is very young and inexperienced
- A lack of players in certainly one key position (scrum half) and a couple of players in other important postions (centre)
- A lack of a genuine natural leader (Smith and Noone have possibilities and maybe Gannon will fit the bill ?)

If we don't find a scrum half we will struggle. This problem will be exaggerated by the relative youth and inexperience - the young lads will be on the defensive and might easily crack (try as they might not to).

If we do find a scrum half then the problem shifts to the other positions (primarily centre). Ideally I'd like to see one of the centres as an 'old head' or at least somebody who knows the ropes (and in this respect, igonring the fact that he is a points scoring machine Mick Nanyn would have been ideal. Even TK-L, who's spectacular days are past but who could act as a guide to the youngsters around him.

Ideally three or so of the (wishful) six signings would fall into this category of good, solid (if unspectacular) players who can ensure that the youngsters in the squad have the supprot and guidance they need and do not become intimidated.

If we can get all that sorted out then that just leaves us with the natural leader (someone like Carter - who was the most recent example.) Generally for this you need a seasoned old pro who has fought the good fight for a number of years and who opponents know will never take a backward step. As I said, Noone and possibly smith could do this but at the moment the jury is out - more a case of potential rather than actual - who knows maybe Gannon - but he strikes me as more of the quietly industrious type rather than the rallying point.

That's my opinion anyway - I'm sure all this stuff and much, much more has been considered by the coaching staff (and I'm encouraged by the presence of TO'G - he has 'done the rounds' and 'knows the score' to lapse into cliche).

the thing to be borne in mind is that time is beginning to ebb away and the nearer we get to the season the faster it will seem to go. And you and I both know that fans are fickle - no matte the improvements off the park the real acid test for the fans - and in particular the 'stayaways' - to use the common misnomer - will judge the club not on our sponsors orshirt manufacturers or the fact that we have adverts in the press or any other of the other good initiatives - they will make their judgenment call on performance (and more importantly) results.       

[GM]

I know what you are saying GM and agree that there appears to be a number of 'good things' going on at the club. The problem is that the logic you apply doesn't work for me. I agree that the club appears to be a tighter ship and that rumours from the 'car park attendant' appear to be a lot less since the new owner moved in but you can't say for definite that because there is no news (about signing) that it is a good sign - the club may well be negotiating with players (and we have to take them on trust - and so far they seem to be worth it) but I repeat the fact that they haven't said anything is neither a good or a bad sign - it just means that they haven't said anything.

John S's point is well put - with the trouble we had at the end of last season it was always going to be a struggle signing a squad (let alone a squad of good players) this year and this struggle was always to be expected. The fact that we are now seven weeks away from the serious stuff and have such a small squad is a genuine concern - you can't expect three or four players to rock up the week before the season starts and be ready to perform well - they have to have some idea of how the team is expected to play and the strengths and weaknesses of the other players in the squad - this just doesn't happen overnight. When all is said and done we have 19 players (currently) two of whom are on trial (and may not make the grade) and one on loan. If the same thing that happens with Harrison and Bracek last year was to happen with Hardman, and the two trialists don't make the grade we would be in a position whereby we couldn't fill a full team sheet with our senior squad members and that doesn't even start to consider loss of form or injuries. We don't have a recognised scrum half (let alone back-up) and we are extremely light in midfield - we need at least one half back (preferably two), two centres (preferably 3) and one utility back. I'm old enough and I hope sensible enough to realise that my ideal 6 signings may well not happen and I am prepared to live with that - as I said this year's squad was always going to be a struggle.

Ignoring the facts about the squad is only asking for trouble a bit later down the track - we need to face what we are up against in order to figure out how to overcome it.
Having said all that, the club is making great strides (I'd say off the field we have moved from the 1940's into this century in about 4 months - which is staggering given what has gone before). I'm encouraged by the retention of the Academy system and the fact that we have made some good signings. As I've said before, I suspect that we will 'over achieve' once the season gets going (based on my current estimation of a mid-table finish) and I also believe that the plan beng executed by our new owner stands a really good chance of earnng us a franchise (irrespective of where we finish in the leadue) - based on our potential and signs of a coherent business plan and the likelihood of us generating revenue for Sky. Time will tell.   

you can't say - Yes I can.
we need to face what we are up against in order to figure out how to overcome it. - 'we' (the fans) don't have to figure this out. I am convinced that everything that can be done IS being done. Now, it might still be that in 5 or 6 weeks times, none of our targets have been netted - but I doubt it. I am not saying we are going to get world class players (Brett Kimmorley?? - really!) But I think we will get the best available and they will be decent.

[trashcansinatra]

That's all very well GM, but surely JohnF is right, you cannot say for certain.

You personally may have faith in the people at the club to come up with the goods but it is still just your opinion and is not a cast iron certainty, which is all Johnf was suggesting.

[vikings 4 ever]

That's all very well GM, but surely JohnF is right, you cannot say for certain.

You personally may have faith in the people at the club to come up with the goods but it is still just your opinion and is not a cast iron certainty, which is all Johnf was suggesting.

I agree, you can only keep your hopes up for so long based on the idea that things must be going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. As hard as they might be trying, we have only managed to bring in 1 player in the last month, so I find it hard to believe that we will be able to find 6, 5, 4, or even 3 more players in within the next few weeks. Until Johnf pointed it out I never actually realised how desperate the situation was - Hardman goes back to Saints, Pickersgill and Owen don't impress in the trials and we get a couple of nasty injuries and we're down to something like 16 players, some of whom are very young and hence very inexperienced. I think Hull FC have about 8 or 9 1st teamers out at the moment and the season hasn't even started yet, goodness knows what would happen if something similar happened here.

This isn't a go at the people running the club but the season is coming round fast and I don't think stayaways or even some current fans will be enticed by the promise that we MIGHT make more signings. An example of this happened just the other day, a colleague of mine said "Its gone spangles at Widnes now they're just not signing anyone and they're going to get battered this year" - no word of a lie. Despite the clubs best attempts to get everything right off the pitch, the casual fans don't see this, they're only interested in the playing squad and the results on the pitch.

[rs]

If Leigh. Salford or Halifax have 3 or more senior players injured they too will be down to Div 2 U21 standard players. None of our rivals are carrying large squads of experienced players.