Harlequins Lose £447,723

[reg warner]

There is a short report in today's League Express which says Harlequins lost £447,723 in the year ended November 2007.  That however is a reduction on the £1,330,373 they lost the previous season.  Their Chief Executive Paul Brown said "The great thing is that the licence system will allow us to move forward with more confidence."
It seems RL in London will never be sustainable.

[life is peachy]

oh my od that is appalling how are they going to continue at that rate.there gates are abysmall relying on away fans to make up the numbers
was the money the rfl gave them a few years ago a loan also or was that present?they could do with learnin a few lessons from the skolars on how to build community links

[rs]

This is my point about Celtic who will probably have gates of a similar size to London and then only if they win as many games as London do which will be unlikely.  How can you let a club in that has its only asset being a rich bloke that could easily get bored with the game or tired of the significant losses year on year.

[Tin Man]

There is a short report in today's League Express which says Harlequins lost £447,723 in the year ended November 2007.  That however is a reduction on the £1,330,373 they lost the previous season.  Their Chief Executive Paul Brown said "The great thing is that the licence system will allow us to move forward with more confidence."
It seems RL in London will never be sustainable.

Your last sentance says it all reg,their are too many other sports Londoners take an interest in.RL is not one of them.

[NAT]

  Its strange that Mr Brown appears not to be to worried , I know that I get realy wound up if I loose a tenner . 

[johnf]

There is a short report in today's League Express which says Harlequins lost £447,723 in the year ended November 2007.  That however is a reduction on the £1,330,373 they lost the previous season.  Their Chief Executive Paul Brown said "The great thing is that the licence system will allow us to move forward with more confidence."
It seems RL in London will never be sustainable.

As one or two of us have been saying all along - the game has subsisted in London for 30 years - has never encouraged enough interest and has never made a profit, ditto the north east, the midlands, Wales and the ill-conceived attempts in France.

For the ten millionth time - there is a considerable difference between expanding the game properly and plonking teams comprising over the hill / second rate / journeyman Antipodeans in the middle of an area that sounds appealing to some short sighted PR department. Anyway, it's sunny outside so I'm not getting started on this one again !!

[JonM]

As one or two of us have been saying all along - the game has subsisted in London for 30 years - has never encouraged enough interest and has never made a profit, ditto the north east, the midlands, Wales and the ill-conceived attempts in France.

Don't think you can really compare Harlequins or Celtic with Catalans; the latter are clearly generating a lot of interest in their area. They have close to a full ground for every game and the council are extending the stadium so they can get more people in. If they are losing money, serious questions need to be asked about where it's going.

The worry for Harlequins must be that Ian Lenaghan, who's been underwriting those losses for the past couple of years, is now putting his money into Wigan. I don't think you can knock them for lack of community links compared to Skolars. There really is an impressive number of kids playing in London and there's been a few times this season when they've had more hometown players than the northern team they're playing. But the crowds really are not big enough to sustain a full-time team without a new benefactor. Why do people think the RFL gave them a handout? The RFL let them go bust and then re-admitted them without any loss of points; cost to the RFL would be zero.

[kyosei]

Totally agree, Johnf. I've argued on here before that there's a huge difference in being interested in a sport and giving up some of your hard earned to watch it live every week/fortnight. It has to be part of the culture of a community which takes time to nutrure. Witness American football, ice hockey and basketball in this country. Hype can get you so far but isn't sustainable. It's great that Harlequins are now producing quality players for their first team but it's taken them thirty years which proves the point. Similarly there was a league and RL structure in France for Catalans to tap into so their current success while maybe exceeding most people's expectations should not be a surprise given their team consists of most of the best native players and above average imports. Yet once again many are blind to this. Celtic in SLXIV is a double disaster waiting to happen because I don't think RL is sustainable in Wales and it could seriously damage existing clubs in the heartlands. 

[LeedsViking]

Totally agree, Johnf. I've argued on here before that there's a huge difference in being interested in a sport and giving up some of your hard earned to watch it live every week/fortnight. It has to be part of the culture of a community which takes time to nutrure. Witness American football, ice hockey and basketball in this country. Hype can get you so far but isn't sustainable. It's great that Harlequins are now producing quality players for their first team but it's taken them thirty years which proves the point. Similarly there was a league and RL structure in France for Catalans to tap into so their current success while maybe exceeding most people's expectations should not be a surprise given their team consists of most of the best native players and above average imports. Yet once again many are blind to this. Celtic in SLXIV is a double disaster waiting to happen because I don't think RL is sustainable in Wales and it could seriously damage existing clubs in the heartlands. 

Swearving off topic a bit... but does anyone remember the rather short lived American Football team we had in Widnes?  They played on fields opposite the Four Topped Oak, on what is now the edge of the Upton Rocks estate.

[Rafe Wrench]

This is my point about Celtic who will probably have gates of a similar size to London and then only if they win as many games as London do which will be unlikely.  How can you let a club in that has its only asset being a rich bloke that could easily get bored with the game or tired of the significant losses year on year.

If we get into Superleague then I guess we'll find out for ourselves!!

Seriously though, JonM has called it about right - London and the south east does now have a lot of kids teams; London Skolars are going from strength to strength and, hey, what about Gateshead? Why couldn't they rival the Falcons in that part of the world? The point though (surely) is that it should take someone like a Widnes or a Fax only maybe three (and not 30) years to produce a £4 million turnover club with a 10k following.

The demographic's changed a lot in Widnes - every patch of ground in the town covered in housing (incl. LV's American Footie pitch); house prices rivalling those much further south; M&S coming to town (my God!!). There's a lot more money being spent in the town than there used to be, and an attractive local rugby team could really draw on that far more quickly.

[rugbyfan]

Well they'r certainly solvent and can demonstrate and turnover of 4m then can't they......

Great advert for the game in London out outside of the main strip (as it were!)   

[rs]

If we get into Superleague then I guess we'll find out for ourselves!!

I am surprised you hadn't noticed the big difference i.e.

We would probably average about 4,000 fans more per game if we had a mid table team and Celtic did.

We have a large number of people in the town willing to sponsor various aspects of the club.

We would have a far larger number buying souvenirs.

We can produce young RL players that can fill gaps in the squad whilst being on relativly low money.

It should take less money to temp a young Wigan lad to Widnes than uproot and go to Wales.

We have a a couple of hundred willing to pay about 3 times the normal season ticket rate for Gold tickets (not discounting Silver)

We have established supporter groups like VIQI, The Trust, Lady Vikings and the Supporters club willing to help the club.

I suspect any lottery we run would dwarf Celtics.

Finally if SOC pulled out there would be an excellent chance that other businessmen (probably not as well off) would step in to take the club forward.



Even ourselves have and probably will again loose money in Sl so you can imagine the financial losses that Celtic will incur.

[manxviking]

In fairness to Quins, even their RU team is struggling financially. Football dominates London so much that even Wasps, one of the most successful clubs in the world can't fill Wycombe's ground, and Wasps can't afford to have their own stadium in London. This isn't a matter for gloating really. But if the much more established code in London cannot get more than 30,000 fans between its four professional clubs, three of whom now play outside London (so that's really 30,000 for the whole of the South East!), what chance a flat-capped northern sport like RL? It's sad.

I remember whem Fulham started - I was living in Wimbledon and really excited that I could watch RL. But the crowds were too small to build atmosphere. The RFL is right to want RL to succeed in London, but I think we are many decades from that happening.

[The Mighty Quin]

oh my od that is appalling how are they going to continue at that rate.there gates are abysmall relying on away fans to make up the numbers
was the money the rfl gave them a few years ago a loan also or was that present?they could do with learnin a few lessons from the skolars on how to build community links

What money is that?

[life is peachy]

What money is that?

the money that they were given with no points deduction for going bust,bailed out by the rfl while clubs like widnes were erm relegated.