Team of the Noughties

[Mr Widnes]

In the case of one-off best, Owen Craigie by a country mile the best half back we have had in the last 10 years.

His first couple of games showed glimpses of why several very high profile players and coaches in World RL called him the best player they had seen, if you could rid him of all the psychological and lifestyle baggage.

I wouldn't disagree with that at all. He ripped Bradford apart that day.

[lazo]

Does anyone think craig weston deservs a mention and what about martin crompton

[Hardman]

Cant believe nobody's metioned Julian F O'Neill but put Oconnor in the team!!

[Brynhild]

I agree that is amazing. JFO was a great player for us, TOC....less so

[Mr Widnes]

I agree that is amazing. JFO was a great player for us, TOC....less so

TOC was in the top 3 of the most yards gained in 2005. I am certain.

[Rickp]

TOC was in the top 3 of the most yards gained in 2005. I am certain.

Thats not as hard as you might think.
TOC was first receiver for at least 2 PTB's of every set of 6 that started outside the opponents 20m line hence the yardage.
You will often find that Fullbacks fair well in the yardage stats too, as they generally field kicks & have open field to run into.
So in a nutshell the first gets easy metres because the defense is 10 awat from him when he receives the ball so he'll get 4-5m before he's touched.
Now metres from tackle busts is a different matter you'll find TOC's stats will be lacking here because, lets be honest he didn't make many clean breaks did he?

[Mr Widnes]

Thats not as hard as you might think.
TOC was first receiver for at least 2 PTB's of every set of 6 that started outside the opponents 20m line hence the yardage.
You will often find that Fullbacks fair well in the yardage stats too, as they generally field kicks & have open field to run into.
So in a nutshell the first gets easy metres because the defense is 10 awat from him when he receives the ball so he'll get 4-5m before he's touched.
Now metres from tackle busts is a different matter you'll find TOC's stats will be lacking here because, lets be honest he didn't make many clean breaks did he?

I am referring to 2005 by the way, he might not have made any clean breaks but he still made the yards. If you haven't got a pack that is making the yardage then how are we supposed to play?  He might not have made the barnstorming breaks but if he is commiting men to the tackle to enable a quick scoot, or running at the oppositions 'spot'player (usually the playmaker to tire him down) or giving opportunity for an off load then he's done his job. Being a prop isn't just about being able to make a clean break.

[BEANO]

TOC was in the top 3 of the most yards gained in 2005. I am certain.

Daniel Frame was another player who has an impressive load of statistics in terms of yards, tackles, tackle bursts etc., and in my opinion never received the credit from the a lot of fans those stats deserved.

Personally - I thought Frame was a tremendous player and it is good to see so many fans on this thread agree.

[Si]

1.   Spruce

2.   Blanch
3.   Moule
4.   Hughes
5.   Demetriou

6.   Carter
7.   Moran

8.   Relf
9.   Cantillon
10. McCurry
11. Frame
12. Farrell
13. Jules


Agreed with Beano, it's been a poor decade for scrum halves.

[Rickp]

I am referring to 2005 by the way, he might not have made any clean breaks but he still made the yards. If you haven't got a pack that is making the yardage then how are we supposed to play?  He might not have made the barnstorming breaks but if he is commiting men to the tackle to enable a quick scoot, or running at the oppositions 'spot'player (usually the playmaker to tire him down) or giving opportunity for an off load then he's done his job. Being a prop isn't just about being able to make a clean break.

Vic if you read my again you'll find that I've explained as to why he made so many yards.
Obviously you've missed the point. So I'll explain again.
When TOC made those yards he was carrying the ball 2-3 times in every set of six we had, bearing in mind because the defending team have to get back 10m for the play the ball so TOC was getting 4-5 meteres a carry before being touched by an opposing player.
So for arguments sake lets say on average you get somewhere between 60 & 80 sets of six each game, we'll go for an even split of possesion so thats 30-40 sets per team. Then we'll say TOC would have on the pitch for 66% of the macth.
So we'll say 2 carries per set  between 20-25 sets. That would mean he would only have gain 2 metres every carry to go over 100 metres in a game. Not many players go over 100m per game only battering ram forwards or Fullbacks. TOC comes under the former.
I hope this explains my original post more clearly. BTW I wasn't having go at TOC in my original post I was just explaining how he could have been top of the yardage charts.

[mick george]

You missed out the grit and determination bits rick

[Rickp]

You missed out the grit and determination bits rick

I never said he didn't have grit & determination.
My comments were about TOCs' yardage figures.
Vic made the comment about haow many yards TOC made & this was enough for him to warrant a place in the team of the Noughties. I think Robert Relf was a better player than TOC handsdown & I was just commenting about with the amount of carries per game his yardage would be up there with best.
Me myself I think anybody who plays this sport has to have loads of grit & determination no matter what position you play in.
After all its possibly the toughest sport in the world.
I'm not saying TOC was a bad player or anything of the sort. But IMO he wasn't one of the best players we had in the Noughties.
He was a good grafter(A Workhorse) thats all.
I've just been on the SL OPTA stats for this season & mteres gained so far this year in the Top 25 there are 8 Prop Forwards & 6 Fullbacks in the list so far.
Which if you look at my original post these stats kinda prove the point I was trying to make.
That Fullbacks & Prop Forwards will always head these lists as the season progresses because open field situations in the Fullbacks case & because of the 10m at the PTB in Prop Forwards case.

[rs]

I must agree I thought relf was the best prop we have had here since the glory days. Andy Platt was good in his spell here and he would be my other Prop.

[mick george]

rick your ststs are made up

[POPPY1]

I would have Troy Stone before TOC anyday