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Author Topic: fantastic history of widnes vikings  (Read 1108 times)
widneswraiths
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« on: 11 March 2010, 01:03:38 »

some amazing facts about our club.enjoy the link below. Grin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widnes_Vikings
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yoda
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« Reply #1 on: 11 March 2010, 01:10:53 »

some amazing facts about our club.enjoy the link below. Grin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widnes_Vikings

The league table is wrong, Keighly arn't on 0 points - its -9  Wink
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chris
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WWW
« Reply #2 on: 11 March 2010, 08:26:13 »

some amazing facts about our club.enjoy the link below. Grin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widnes_Vikings

My site is better  Wink

http://rugby.widnes.tv  Cheesy
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Peter
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« Reply #3 on: 11 March 2010, 09:08:28 »

My site is better  Wink

http://rugby.widnes.tv  Cheesy

It is  ---  I have bookmarked it.  Very factual and very well written.
« Last Edit: 11 March 2010, 13:30:55 by Peter » Logged

Peter

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Rickp
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« Reply #4 on: 11 March 2010, 10:19:28 »

My site is better  Wink

http://rugby.widnes.tv  Cheesy
Your site is excellent Chris but for one thing.
That being the year the club was formed. I like you are of the opinion that it was formed in 1873.
I've always assumed this in the 40 odd years I've been watching the club.
But on another thread I got embroiled in a bit of a debate with another member that this date is incorrect.
He insisted that we celebrated our Centenary 2 years early & we were actually formed in 1875.
He reckons he has seen a Newspaper report dated in 1875 about a New Football Club called Farnworth & Appleton being formed in Widnes Crcket Club in 1875.
I'm sure with all the information you have compiled so far that this fact should be easy for you to confirm.
I hope you are correct with 1873 as like I said it's something I've always thought was a fact.
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HopeThisHelps
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« Reply #5 on: 11 March 2010, 10:57:24 »

Your site is excellent Chris but for one thing.
That being the year the club was formed. I like you are of the opinion that it was formed in 1873.
I've always assumed this in the 40 odd years I've been watching the club.
But on another thread I got embroiled in a bit of a debate with another member that this date is incorrect.
He insisted that we celebrated our Centenary 2 years early & we were actually formed in 1875.
He reckons he has seen a Newspaper report dated in 1875 about a New Football Club called Farnworth & Appleton being formed in Widnes Crcket Club in 1875.
I'm sure with all the information you have compiled so far that this fact should be easy for you to confirm.
I hope you are correct with 1873 as like I said it's something I've always thought was a fact.

The club was formed in the Autumn of 1875 and the first game was probably that one against Northwich Vics in January 1876.

And you can take that to the bank!

The first two or three seasons of the club's existence the home games against Northwich were rugby matches and the away games played under socccer rules.
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HopeThisHelps
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« Reply #6 on: 11 March 2010, 13:19:31 »

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/F%26A_Guardian_1875_extract.jpg
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Peter
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« Reply #7 on: 11 March 2010, 13:40:07 »

The club was formed in the Autumn of 1875 and the first game was probably that one against Northwich Vics in January 1876.

And you can take that to the bank!

The first two or three seasons of the club's existence the home games against Northwich were rugby matches and the away games played under socccer rules.


I always thought the year of founding was 1873, and the first game was against Runcorn, which we lost!

There is another Encyclopaedia which says 1873.
« Last Edit: 11 March 2010, 13:51:03 by Peter » Logged

Peter

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Glynn
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« Reply #8 on: 11 March 2010, 15:33:15 »

It is  ---  I have bookmarked it.   Very factual and very well written.

me to, used it quite a bit already to find out facts and figures.
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HopeThisHelps
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« Reply #9 on: 11 March 2010, 16:19:08 »


I always thought the year of founding was 1873, and the first game was against Runcorn, which we lost!

There is another Encyclopaedia which says 1873.


the Runcorn game was the first following the 1895 split.
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Peter
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« Reply #10 on: 11 March 2010, 17:45:15 »

the Runcorn game was the first following the 1895 split.

You are right. My Grandfather watched the game.
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Peter

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HopeThisHelps
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« Reply #11 on: 11 March 2010, 20:19:43 »

There is another Encyclopaedia which says 1873.

If you asked the author of that encyclopedia as to where they got the info from they'd say "a book".

Likewise if you asked the people who decided that 1973/74 was the Centenary year.

If you challenged them to come up with a shred of real contemporary evidence they'd be lost because it was only ever received wisdom.

The error seems to have cropped up around the mid-1930s. Even as late as 1932 the Carnival booklet (which includes a couple of historical of articles) says that the origins of the club are wrapped in mystery and it seems to have just grown up. In other words they didn't have a clue about the very early years. Jack Smith seems to have had a bit to do with putting together that booklet but he didn't join the Chemics til 1880.

Presumably because the prestige of the club kept growing in the 1930s the demand must have been there to come up with a definitive foundation date (what with articles for Wembley programmes and other big games) so it is likely that 1873 was guessed at.

One of the founders mentioned in the 1875 article, Nat Farrant, didn't die until 1936, indeed he was at the Wembley final of 1934 supporting the club he helped to found despite having left the town to become a succesful businessman in Yorkshire some half a century earlier. It's likely that Nat or some other old-timer was asked to come up with the formation date and, after the passing of 60 years or so, misremembered.

Once it appeared in print the mistake kept being repeated in ignorance of the archive evidence for the 1875 . Having said that one programme (maybe Wembley 1950, can't remember off hand) does mention 1875 but that might have been a typo!
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BarryJohn
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« Reply #12 on: 11 March 2010, 20:43:19 »

Chris' site kicks word. Cool
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Rickp
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« Reply #13 on: 11 March 2010, 23:08:20 »

If you asked the author of that encyclopedia as to where they got the info from they'd say "a book".

Likewise if you asked the people who decided that 1973/74 was the Centenary year.

If you challenged them to come up with a shred of real contemporary evidence they'd be lost because it was only ever received wisdom.

The error seems to have cropped up around the mid-1930s. Even as late as 1932 the Carnival booklet (which includes a couple of historical of articles) says that the origins of the club are wrapped in mystery and it seems to have just grown up. In other words they didn't have a clue about the very early years. Jack Smith seems to have had a bit to do with putting together that booklet but he didn't join the Chemics til 1880.

Presumably because the prestige of the club kept growing in the 1930s the demand must have been there to come up with a definitive foundation date (what with articles for Wembley programmes and other big games) so it is likely that 1873 was guessed at.

One of the founders mentioned in the 1875 article, Nat Farrant, didn't die until 1936, indeed he was at the Wembley final of 1934 supporting the club he helped to found despite having left the town to become a succesful businessman in Yorkshire some half a century earlier. It's likely that Nat or some other old-timer was asked to come up with the formation date and, after the passing of 60 years or so, misremembered.

Once it appeared in print the mistake kept being repeated in ignorance of the archive evidence for the 1875 . Having said that one programme (maybe Wembley 1950, can't remember off hand) does mention 1875 but that might have been a typo!
Hopethishelps you was the person I had the original discussion with on another thread & you put up a great for 1875.
You implied that you'd actually seen documented evidence.
But this post seems to undermine everything you said on the other thread. Your facts about 1875 seem to be only hearsay aswell.
I was begining to give you the benefit of the doubt but now I'm not so sure.
We're shrouded in mystery Angry
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HopeThisHelps
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« Reply #14 on: 11 March 2010, 23:25:00 »

Hopethishelps you was the person I had the original discussion with on another thread & you put up a great for 1875.
You implied that you'd actually seen documented evidence.
But this post seems to undermine everything you said on the other thread. Your facts about 1875 seem to be only hearsay aswell.
I was begining to give you the benefit of the doubt but now I'm not so sure.
We're shrouded in mystery Angry

Did you click on the link earlier in the thread?
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