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Author Topic: talk of summer Rugby for Junior and Youth  (Read 775 times)
vinny11
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« Reply #15 on: 31 March 2010, 21:28:07 »

The question has also been put to O/A teams in the last few days.

David Gent says "I haven't heard anyone whose against it"............there seems to be quite a few on here.

The options set out by the RFL are:

(A)   August 1 to May 31  with break for Challenge Cup final, and winter break from mid-December to mid February.
(B)   Sept 1 to June 30 with winter break from mid Dec to mid-February
(C)   March 1 to November 1 with break for Challenge Cup final only
(D)   September to May as we are now


option c all the way, would rather play in the summer ant day over the freezing cold.
My major issue is the size of the breaks there suggesting, we would loose lads to play union IMO
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« Reply #16 on: 31 March 2010, 21:31:48 »

option D rather be sat out the back with bbq n a few beers through the summer than sweatin me moobs off gettin grass burns.
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vikinggriff
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« Reply #17 on: 31 March 2010, 21:46:18 »

How do they cope in the South of France and Australia then?


Must be a lot of rich amateur clubs in France and Oz then.  The number of extra injuries argument also fits into the same category--or are they tougher in other parts of the world?

Other sports in summer--cricket?--dont see too many lads playing cricket and that leaves tennis (courts only full for a short period each year).  Dont see other sports getting in the way.

Whilst I remain to be convinced by the summer argument it should not be dismissed by negative comments which have not been fully thought out.
they play in winter Wink
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« Reply #18 on: 01 April 2010, 09:49:42 »

Are the NCL running a summer competition again this year?


No LV but the general opinion amongst NCL clubs are that they will change to Summer in 2012
« Last Edit: 01 April 2010, 10:31:01 by SAINT » Logged
cjl
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« Reply #19 on: 01 April 2010, 10:01:33 »

they play in winter Wink

 Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #20 on: 01 April 2010, 10:42:37 »

I have always been in the winter rugby camp.  Then I read the counter arguments--I make no apology for the length of this posting which is currently being discussed on amatuer forums but overall I find this very hard to argue against.  The only thing I worry about is the holiday periods which I am sure will afect squads and therefore fixtures.  However this is the argument...................The last time this was debated on here Sam posted this article on a contibutors behalf and it's well worth another read.

JUNIOR RUGBY LEAGUE


INSIGHT INTO SUMMER RUGBY LEAGUE


PRO’S AND CONS


1. CHILD WELFARE

2. PLAYER RETENTION

3. SKILL IMPROVEMENT

4. FINANCIAL LOSS/GAIN

5. ENJOYMENT AND FUN

6. PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

7. PATHWAY TO THE FUTURE

8. INCREASED REGISTRATION AND PLAYING NUMBERS

9. FOOTBALL AND OTHER SPORTS


CHILD WELFARE

The welfare of all rugby players is of paramount importance, and when dealing with junior players this is even more important. I have on many occasions seen players who are clearly distressed at being exposed to extremes of weather ranging from sleet, rain, freezing cold mud, and high winds that accelerate the effects of the above weather conditions.

I attended a junior game in December and saw the effects first hand. The under 10’s player after 5 minutes of play walked to the side of the field complaining of sore legs, the player was sent out again to play. The same player some minutes later returned, and on this occasion he was checked, it was then found that the pitch had recently been sanded, which is a common practice to keep pitches in good condition. The pitch was in poor condition, muddy, wet, and the game was being played in driving rain, this combined with the mud was sticking to the players legs, and the players who were unfortunate enough to get it on the inside of the thighs were left in agony, with chapped, sore and irritated skin.

I have seen kids as young as 5 in training crying due to either cold, wet or windy conditions, or a combination of all of them.
We expect children to train and play in weather that would challenge certain health and safety conditions.

PLAYER RETENTION

I have been coaching junior rugby league for 6 years, and during that time I have seen far too many player leave the game. I have no doubt that players leave the sport for many different reasons, but I am sure that extreme weather conditions during training and games will have a massive effect on a players commitment and allegiance.

I think that parents have the equivalent amount of persuasion when it comes down to non attendance at training, as they do for attending training. The parents after a hard day at work, or look after children will be far less inclined to encourage their child to attend an outdoor session if it’s freezing cold, torrential rain, or anything other than good weather.

The most important issue for clubs is retaining players, and preventing the above will go an awful long way to doing just that.

SKILL IMPROVEMENT AND PLAYER AND COACH DEVELOPMENT.

This is a very important subject if for nothing other than securing the future of our great game.

The development of a player is a very complex process, it involves the player being receptive to the coach, it involves the coach being dedicated, and also having the correct knowledge and people skills to get over his points.

I have seen, and been involved in training sessions that the biggest restrictive factor is not low attendance, lack of ability, or concentration, but simple weather conditions. The development of passing requires a clean, dry ball. I know a player needs to handle wet or slippy balls, but at the outset, his confidence is the one area we need to target, and a succession of dropped balls will do nothing for his confidence or development.

The implementation of plays, moves, or basic structure will require the coach to break down set plays to evaluate, highlight, and address any problems or areas for attention. These break downs are more often than not neglected as the coach does not want his young players standing still and getting cold, wet or disinterested.
The introduction of defensive sets and attacking sets also needs to be done with many periods of inactivity, and feedback, how can this be done in adverse weather conditions.

I also know of many parents who will not bring their children to training if the weather is bad for no other reason than putting that child back in their car covered in mud from head to toe. I myself hate to strip the boys of after training to get them home, it’s a soul destroying task, and like I stated to some people the deciding factor for a player attending or not.

The introduction of summer training will also allow any players on a scholarship programme to attend their nights training with whichever club they are with, and have no effect on training with their amateur club of choice.

The introduction of summer training will also have a profound effect on the coaching staff. I know too many young or inexperienced coaches who have left our sport due to what they perceived as failing to develop, or improve either a team, or a player. The coach who trains during the summer will have a much higher level of attendance, and will see a huge improvement in ability levels in his players, and team. This alone will help retain some coaches who otherwise may have been lost to other sports or sport in general.

FINANCIAL LOSS/GAIN

The current economic situation we are in will have a marked consequence on all aspects of life, and our sport will not be immune to its effects.

I speak for my team, a local under 12’s side, who is now without any decent training facilities, and have had to train some 5 miles away from our clubhouse at Sandal RUFC at a cost of £100 per week for floodlit facilities. The team have had to raise money and so far have spent £1200.00 on training, which is a ridicules amount of money not being spent in our own club, or sport.

The average cost in Wakefield for training under lights is £45.00 per hour. This is normally on astro turf, and is ok for passing drills, but not good enough for real contact and tackling exercises. This price is an average, the lowest being £40 the highest being £55.

The situation in Wakefield is dire to say the least, and our development is in peril should we continue to have to hunt down training venues at inflated hourly rates.

The other and more worrying thing is direct loss of revenue to the actual club, more worrying in many ways than the third part loss by paying training fees out of sport.

The cancelation of fixtures is both alarming and totally inconvenient to both the team, the club, and also to the already over stretched fixture and junior secretaries at the clubs and league.

The last 4 weeks of fixtures in Wakefield and Kirklees have been called off for either waterlogged pitches, district council shut downs, or frozen and unsafe playing surface. This is a very poor state of affairs to be in. The mini section are without any pre season fixtures, and the junior section will be involved in a unreasonable fixture build up due to this weather. The forecast from today looks like this 4 weeks could in fact spread to 6 weeks if we are unlucky.

The cost of this is very high, teams will not be at the club on the regular basis that a consistent run of fixtures brings, and could go some 2, 3, or even 4 weeks without regular income we all come to depend on.

The cancelation of a game on the day also has a marked effect on that day itself, with many people getting ready and preparing for the game for it to be cancelled, all this time wasting and disappointment could be avoided with the implementation of fair weather rugby league.

I am also a Cricket parent, and there is nothing better on a summer night than attending a session, having a drink, whether that be alcoholic or not, and simply enjoying the evenings session. The interesting thing is that Cricket clubs have a far higher ratio of attendance per player number at training than either football or rugby, and the exact details can be found on UK sport information website.

ENJOYMENT AND FUN

Why do we watch, play, or support rugby league? It’s simple, we all are involved because it’s fun, it’s enjoyable and we feel that we are part of the greatest sport there is to play

Fun, well I for one am more than sure that people’s perception of fun does not involve standing for 90 minutes twice per week in wet, freezing, damp, and muddy conditions, to watch your child train.

Enjoyable, well to enjoy the game, you need to know the game, knowledge comes from experience, confidence, and ability, three things that directly derive from regular, and quality training sessions. The words regular, and quality can only really be used to describe training sessions in good weather. I know that adults can enjoy, learn, and benefit from training in adverse weather, even though it’s far from ideal, but junior players cannot. The junior player needs to be trained in conditions that allow him to concentrate for longer periods than he would in bad weather, he or she needs to train in conditions that are comfortable, that allow he or she to take their time, and get to understand what the coach is attempting to deliver. Then and only then will the player fully benefit from the session, the player will enjoy it, and look forward to the next session.

Rugby is FUN, being cold, wet, muddy, and miserable is NOT !

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

I have touched on this in the training section within retention of players, but I would like to expand on it.

The coach is part of the process of development for all players, not the only part, but an important, influential and hopefully a supportive part of the process. The player will only benefit from high quality coaching if he can concentrate on the task at hand.

I do not like to make comparisons with our Australian counterparts, and I also do not think that being Australian is an indication of ability. I do however firmly believe that the high levels of skill displayed by Australian junior, senior, and International players were forged through their access to warm, dry weather conditions through the crucial development years from 8 to 16. The simple fact is that a young player who can hold a ball, pass the ball, learn to tackle, run, sidestep and dummy will have a much higher level of success than one who is trying to do the same, but also is freezing cold, soaking wet through, with muddy hands, playing with a wet, slimy mud crusted ball, and trying to run through ankle deep mud.

The coach, who is committed to advancing his players ability, will have game plans, training routines, and an overall idea of what his squad’s strengths and weaknesses are. This coach will have little or no chance of ever implementing his routines in the time frame they would require to satisfactory achieve their purpose in serious weather.
The coach will always, and rightly so have the junior player’s welfare in mind, he will no matter how hard he tries not to, will rush through the sessions or resort to a training programme that revolves around movement to maintain warmth, than one that the player, or players require to develop.

The player also needs to develop his skills in games. The simple truth is that there is no substitute for game time; it enables the coach and player to put into operation his plays, and analyze a player’s ability. This can only be achieved with any degree of efficiency if the games are regular, and played in conditions that permit a player to execute, and implement any training ground moves, and strategies. The long breaks in winter do not lend themselves to any form of consistency, no consistency with regular games due to cancelations, no consistency due to diverse changes in weather conditions, which can range from rain, deep mud, sleet, frost, waterlogged pitches, or a combination of them all.

The truth is weather can change in summer, but the texture of the ground is very consistent, the weather is either wet or dry, the temperature is not a issue, lower winds, no ice, frost, mud, sleet, or fog, and the single most important factor is that the whole experience is enjoyable.

The big picture is fun, enjoyment, entertainment, higher levels of income, child safety and welfare, higher retention of players, larger number of new players recruited to the game, and a better end product, played in a safer, more secure and player and spectator friendly environment.

PATHWAY TO THE FUTURE

I for one feel that the end goal for a player is to play the game as an adult. That level is anything from the lowest amateur leagues to the professional International arena in a test match.

The simple truth is that if we persist in preparing our future stars in the way we are, the future quality of our game will not improve, and we will still present a huge jump from junior amateur rugby played in the winter months, to professional rugby league played in the summer.

The massive difference in winter and summer rugby should not come as a big surprise to our players who are good enough to play our great game, and get paid for doing so. The pathway for progression should be a natural advancement, a pathway that each stage takes a player to the next level and beyond. This pathway should have no avoidable obstacles put on it! Winter rugby is an avoidable obstacle, it makes the transition to professional rugby league a difficult one.

The amateur game needs to send out a positive message, one that will have the doubters running in the opposite direction. This move is the only way to improve our level of skill, ability, fun, enjoyment, and numbers playing, let’s do it, do it soon, and fight for the future of our game, our players, and the financial security of our clubs.

INCREASED REGISTRATION AND PLAYING NUMBERS

The FFR or French Federation of Rugby (union) three years ago switched all junior rugby union games for 6 to 15 years old to summer fixtures with a midyear break between mid July to the start of September. The FFR claim that their numbers of new players has increased by 70% nationwide. I hear you say what ! Yes that’s correct 70%. They also say that the normal or average 15% drop out of registered players per annum has also dropped down to 6%.

I now know why, and the exact same reasons would apply to us in the UK. The French junior rugby players now do not have to make the dreaded choice of football or rugby, as they are now played at different times of the year.

Here in the UK, the choice is simple; you can play football, rugby league or rugby union. The players who are linked to rugby union clubs more often than not choose between either codes of rugby. Rugby union players tend not to play football, how do I know, I know through many years of playing the game, and being involved in junior rugby union. The union players, or players at many of the top sides in Yorkshire go to private schools. The private school fixture times always are between 10:30 to 11:30 am on Saturday mornings, this automatically counts them out of playing league, as they have little or no choice but to represent their school first.

I have lost 7 players to rugby union this year, and will not get them back until we move to Sunday mornings in two years time.
The move to summer rugby will allow these players to play both codes of the sport, and hopefully choose ours.

REMEMBER union is growing at an alarming rate, and we have to combat its growth in our areas. There product is poor in my opinion, but it’s marketed in a dynamic and appealing manor.

The other glaring reason for the increased number in France is summer rugby; kids just want to play in warm, dry, or at least comfortable conditions, as do coaches, parents, and spectators.

Summer rugby is a must !

FOOTBALL AND OTHER SPORTS

Football our national sport is a game that will always make many junior players consider to play instead of rugby league. The fact that we play at the exact time of the year than football clubs only makes our plight even more difficult. The player does not need to choose, he can have his cake, and eat it with summer rugby, and it will maintain his fitness, his wellbeing, balance, vision, and positional awareness far better than a summer of inactivity which follows a long hard season.

Football can also be played on tarmac, Astra turf, or grass, so it is at an advantage to us as we need grass to fully develop our players.

The other thing to consider is the cost to parents who may consider letting their child play both games per week if a clash of days does not occur. The parent who is financially struggling or on a low income is far more likely to allow a child or children to play both games if the cost of membership, training fee’s, boots, kit, and travel expense is spread throughout the year. The introduction of summer rugby will allow a parent to have a lower cost and still maintain their child’s sporting position the whole year.

CONCLUSION

This is my opinion; I only submit this as I am passionate about the future of the game, not only its existence, but the level of quality on offer.

The future of our game is in our hands, remember in 1977 the second highest weekly attendance behind football was speedway with hundreds of thousands week watching at most venues throughout the country. I remember the Ivan Mauger, Peter Collins who were all household names; the sport was live on Saturday primetime sports TV, who watches it now? Not many due to too little coverage, so if a sport with that level of interest can diminish at the rate speedway did, so can our sport.

I want to ensure that the sport is pushed in the right direction, and the first and major step is to create history by ensuring the junior sections of all our clubs have the most child welfare, skill developing, and enjoyable environment to play and train in.

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FESTER
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« Reply #21 on: 01 April 2010, 16:51:04 »

summer rugby is another attempt by SL to take over the game and must be treated as such. Can see the arguement for u12s but a no no for o/a , youth rugby. There will be a reduction in the number of clubs in the NWC ,simply by the reduction in players, not only caused by 'other' distractions, but by an exodus of fatlads and the unfit who can keep up in the mud and ,no leppo i didnt mention u by name Wink
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leppo
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« Reply #22 on: 01 April 2010, 17:39:24 »

oi brad lol (im strugglin in  the mud these days too)  Grin could be the last year 4 me lol Shocked
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SAINT
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« Reply #23 on: 01 April 2010, 17:47:58 »

It was announced at the last Widnes meeting that the Super League and Co-operative Championship teams are to run the juniors and youth from 14 on instead of there being Service Area teams
Overall the role of the SA has changed drastically with Widnes Vikings now responsible for games at U15, U16, U18 and U20 levels.
Now they can pick anyone they want to ruin much easier
« Last Edit: 01 April 2010, 17:52:45 by SAINT » Logged
AB
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« Reply #24 on: 01 April 2010, 17:54:34 »

oi brad lol (im strugglin in  the mud these days too)  Grin could be the last year 4 me lol Shocked
And how many times have we heard this leptsy  Cheesy Cheesy
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leagueconvert
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« Reply #25 on: 01 April 2010, 18:09:37 »


Other sports in summer--cricket?--dont see too many lads playing cricket and that leaves tennis (courts only full for a short period each year).  Dont see other sports getting in the way.

Whilst I remain to be convinced by the summer argument it should not be dismissed by negative comments which have not been fully thought out.

Oh sorry, did someone dare to have an opinion that didnt match yours?!!! Of course, everyone else must be wrong then !!

Firstly, if you dont see too many lads playing cricket then you obviously dont look around much. Moorfield junior cricket section, featuring kids from 5 or 6 years old all the way through to open age have a large number of rugby players playing for them all through the age groups. Secondly, just because you dont agree with someones comments doesnt mean that they havent been thought out. There are many occassions in the winter when games are called off due to frozen pitches. Pitches that are baked solid in the summer are equally as dangerous. It has nothing to do with other countries being tougher, its just plain common sense!!

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