The game on the field...

[ozviking]

Here's a thing that's bugged me for a while and I'm interested in what others 'really' feel.

I see there's a lot of feeling in the forum re London / Wrexham being propped up by the RFL who in their wisdom want to expand the game across the whole country. (If not Europe). So, the problem is that the investment is there but the results are not.... well are not in the case of attendances and thereby money coming in directly. One can argue that London / Wrexham’s existence assures the involvement of Sky and thereby overall increased sponsorship for the game.
Certainly the game in London and the SE is stringer from a participation perspective than its ever been.

So what's going wrong converting those thousands into attendances?

Now, I declare that I am a fanatic and will watch RL til the die I die, BUT a lot of that is down to the history of the sport and my personal introduction to the game through my family. But clearly not everyone feels the same. Why then do other people NOT go to games?

I have been giving this some thought recently since encouraging a few people to go to a game here in Melbourne. Watching the two best national sides in the world - Australia v New Zealand. The people who came with me were Aussie Rules supporters, a non-football supporter, an American, someone from Doncaster (UK) who didn't even know they had a team! The response... not great at all and not one of them has accepted an invitation to go to another game.

I have to admit that I watch games largely out of interest in the result. If two teams play and I don't care who wins my interest soon disappears. Am I unusual in that? I suspect not. I have no interest at all in Aussie Rules yet I can watch games just to be entertained.

So it's got me thinking... is Rugby League too technical / tactical? Surrounded by people who didn't know the game I found myself explaining the way half-backs control the play and drive the direction of the attack to create openings / weaknesses in the defence and then switch to exploiting those weaknesses. I was able to predict breaks, scoring opportunities, point out people getting out of position and so on. I "get it", they did but as one said, there's a lot of time spent creating the opportunity an then when it comes it "explodes in to clinical action" (the actual words used). And I think that's true of our game. But is that then necessarily "entertaining" for the uninitiated? I'm thinking not.

To me, Aussie Rules appears totally unstructured (it's not), but still the constant movement and speed across the entire field is appealing. And 60,000 people will turn up to a club game. Rugby Union, with its constant kicking quickly moves the focus around the whole field. Soccer too spreads very quickly across the whole field. Our game remains focussed basically on a 10m square around the play-the-ball (for the most part). This has the advantage that you can see the whole game on TV, there's not too much happening off the ball - except players getting into position to exploit the defence. But ball movement is quite limited. American football, a fully formatted and structured game attracts huge crowds... but in fairness to them, the forward pass from the scrimmage expands the 'play' over a wider area than RL.

The question: Is this condensed, structured, technical,  tactical aspect of our game the very thing that works against it? I often consider it akin to chess, and in a way also it can be compared in terms of the number of players but lack of outside interest. RL is a great game to play, but holds little appeal to watch. Or so it seems.

If that is the case, then RL has no future as a major spectator sport in its present form. Its interesting that State of Origin is very well watched as are 'finals' games. What is different? Is it commitment from the players? "I" suspect so. So will fewer games be the answer?

Back to my original statement re London / Wrexham... do people watch Widnes / Saints / Leeds  etc.. mostly because they're the home town team and spectators played Rugby League ourselves or grew up with it? Or is it the game itself? It would be interesting to hear he views of people who have 'come to the game late and/or from outside the RL area'. Listening to what brought them to the game may hold the key to attracting more people.

[Rickp]

A very thoughtful & worked out post Ged. I totally understand where your coming from with this one. In my experience as fan, I was brought up into the game  from a child in the late sixties when my dad used take me. I watched & loved watching it right from the start. After watching it, it was then that I started playing. So I was watch first & played later. I myself don't agree with you that it is hard to convert people into watching it & I have converted quite a few Football fans to the sport. My biggest achievement was my Girlfriends Nephew he was 15yo & He had never seen a game on the TV let alone live & 1 boxing day I took him to Watch Widnes against Leigh. He spent most of the time playing with his new mobile phone that he got for Christmas than he seemed to be watching the game, so much so on the way out my mate said to me it looks like you wasted your money there Rick we won't see him again. I just looked at my friend & nodded my head in agreement.
On our walk back home I said to him so you wasn't impressed then & to my amazement he said it was great & loved every minute. You could've knocked me down with a feather when he said this. I said to him you seemed to be playing with your phone more than you were watching the game His response to that was he was texting his younger brother a running commentary of the game as it going. The lad now has been watching Widnes home & away for the last 7 years he's on managment in the Midlands at the moment but he's came up & is upstairs preparing his gear to go to Barrow tomorrow, via Lancaster where he's picking up his mate, who incidentally he is in the process of converting him.
My little tip for Ged if you do take non fans to the game. Don't try to explain the game to them just tell them to watch it & learn it for themselves. It works every time for me. They'll soon pick it up by the way crowd reacts.

[mike]

Don't try to explain the game to them just tell them to watch it & learn it for themselves. It works every time for me. They'll soon pick it up by the way crowd reacts.

maybe trying to explain everything to them in 'one-go' so to speak is too much, explain major things like '6th tackle' or '40-20s' but leave things like setting up plays and player movements for a much later date.

whenever i take someone to the match that hasn't been before, i usually wait for them to ask anything they dont understand, i have introduced quite a few people to the game and apart from one or two they still turn up.

[King Viking]

I watched Australia and New Zealand at Twickenham Stoop last autumn, and it was virtually a sell out. I can't imagine there was a massive amount who travelled from the heartlands.

So where are these people for Quins home matches? And this is the issue. There were dolly birds handing out flyers all the way down from the tube station to the ground and inside - problem was, all the flyers were for Quins RU, and that's where their issue lies.

I believe part of the issue is getting to the games. But while there are plenty of people playing the game down south, it's very diverse, and unless your nearish the ground (e.g. in Richmond) you're talking a tube or a train or both to get there. Not quite as easy as us just say driving to the match. The challenge is how they can get the people who take a few hours out of their weekend to play league, to take a further few hours out of their weekend to watch league.

[Peter]

I watched Australia and New Zealand at Twickenham Stoop last autumn, and it was virtually a sell out. I can't imagine there was a massive amount who travelled from the heartlands.

So where are these people for Quins home matches? And this is the issue. There were dolly birds handing out flyers all the way down from the tube station to the ground and inside - problem was, all the flyers were for Quins RU, and that's where their issue lies.

I believe part of the issue is getting to the games. But while there are plenty of people playing the game down south, it's very diverse, and unless your nearish the ground (e.g. in Richmond) you're talking a tube or a train or both to get there. Not quite as easy as us just say driving to the match. The challenge is how they can get the people who take a few hours out of their weekend to play league, to take a further few hours out of their weekend to watch league.

Richmond upon Thames has a population of 172335 [Office of National Statistics].   That is a fair catchment area.

But on any website advertising Richmond there is no mention of any Rugby Club, RU or RL, And you are right --- that is where the issue lies, telling people there is entertainment such as Rugby going on a walking distance fron where the live.

[portsmouth_viking]

There is also the fact that there is so much more to do than just the RL. Walking towards Quins last night we passed more people heading back towards the train station on the way to the England game! With 5 or 6 top level RU clubs, 5 or 6 big football clubs, Twickenham, Wembley, O2 and more, it is going to be very hard to grab the attention

[Sandgroper]

The major thing that sets RL apart from RU or Soccer is the relentless pace of the game with relatively few breaks. 

Soccer players seem to be walking most of the time where RU players have regular 'smoko's' for treatment of players, preparing for line outs etc.

[Pop Cider]

How many adverts do you see on the tube for Chicago, Wicked, Billy Elliot etc. THOUSANDS at what cost to fill a flea pit theatre? How many ads do you see for Quins? A BIG FAT ZERO.

That's where the problem lies.... most of the 22 million in the capital don't even know they exist!!!!!

[ozviking]

How many adverts do you see on the tube for Chicago, Wicked, Billy Elliot etc. THOUSANDS at what cost to fill a flea pit theatre? How many ads do you see for Quins? A BIG FAT ZERO.

That's where the problem lies.... most of the 22 million in the capital don't even know they exist!!!!!

I take your point Pop and you're right, but my point was more along the lines of - what about the thousands who play every week? Why do they not go to the games? Why do I feel like I support Widnes and love RL but if I miss a melbourne storm game - I don't bat an eye lid? I went out yesterday afternoon and sat in a pub listening to a band while 20,000 others paid $1 each to watch the Storm....
My reason? When I have no interest in the result I tend to find a lot games boring and repetitive. Some games are just flat, that happens, but I find the a lot of games like that these days.
Another thing..... I get totally fed up with the negativity of the game. We're always looking for someone to make a mistake. Its highlighted on TV. Id doesn't matter whether its a missed tackle, a bombed try, a poor kick, a bad referee decision, a bad video ref call. . . Are we expecting the players and officials to be perfect? What happened to applauding creative play? Its just one of those things that annoys me.

Is there something wrong with the product on the field?

[Sandgroper]

I would suggest therapy mate!

Sounds like you've hit old age!

[Peter]

13,000 watched England RU Ladies yesterday at the Twickenham Stoop.

[RB]

I take your point Pop and you're right, but my point was more along the lines of - what about the thousands who play every week? Why do they not go to the games? Why do I feel like I support Widnes and love RL but if I miss a melbourne storm game - I don't bat an eye lid? I went out yesterday afternoon and sat in a pub listening to a band while 20,000 others paid $1 each to watch the Storm....
My reason? When I have no interest in the result I tend to find a lot games boring and repetitive. Some games are just flat, that happens, but I find the a lot of games like that these days.
Another thing..... I get totally fed up with the negativity of the game. We're always looking for someone to make a mistake. Its highlighted on TV. Id doesn't matter whether its a missed tackle, a bombed try, a poor kick, a bad referee decision, a bad video ref call. . . Are we expecting the players and officials to be perfect? What happened to applauding creative play? Its just one of those things that annoys me.

Is there something wrong with the product on the field?

Looking at the NRL I think the product is fantastic.
Their is far too much one up Rugby in Super League / Championship players running into the line without really trying or excpecting to break it / or looking to offload or move it wide.
However compared to any other sport that I can think of Rugby League knocks spots off all of them.
Rugby League certainly in the UK is apallingly governed and marketed it has a bad image as regards the public at large. In the UK we have had 115 years and counting to change that image and failed miserably.
Read Tony Collins book ''Rugbys Great Split'' and you can see that many of Rugby Leagues problems are exactly the same now as they were at the turn of the twentieth century and how the different origins of the game in Australia's and the areas from where it drew it's support let ultomately to its greater but still limited in some respects success.
Rugby League's product could of course be better but I do not believe this is the main problem the game faces in gaining acceptance from the wider public.

[Sandgroper]

Nor do I!

It's the people at the top who buy Twickers Boxes for their firms etc and that is where most RU cash comes from.  RU rules in the top schools/unis and always will so why we are chasing our tales to beat it beats me!

I would guess that Sky have a hand in RFL policy (expansion etc) and they pay the piper.

It is noticeable that RU sees the advantages of RL coaches and their game will change as a result.

[ozviking]

.......It is noticeable that RU sees the advantages of RL coaches and their game will change as a result.

Not only playing devils advocate here, but isn't there a complaint in RU that too many RL coaches are stifling the game with defences that are too good?

Certainly, when you watch UK RU vs SANZ RU it would appear that the game here is more expansive and (particularly NZ) put more emphasis on attack than heavily structured defence.

Isn't it fuinny how the grass is always greener.... I actually prefer the spectacle of Super League over the predictability of the NRL.
Maybe I am getting old. But, sometimes I think I may just love the game because its an old friend. I want to see more confrontation on the field and more attacking cut & thrust from teams... and dare I say, more passion in ALL games, not just State of Origin, playoffs and cup finals.

Having said all of that... roll on the 4 Nations!!! c'mon England!!!

[Sandgroper]

For me the sikly skills of Lockyer and Slater and others are too good to miss.  We don't have that slickness atm.  Too many centres that aren't centres and so on.  the power game still rules, and while referees allow slowing down tactics they will always rule.

SL with rules properly applied could be so much faster with the emphasis on fast backs and quick moves. Or am I dwelling in the past?

I still believe that Alex Murphy would have played ducks and drakes with the rush defence, and given ten meters to play with - well !