15's and 16's 11th june

[fourbagsfull]

both teams beaten again today, featherstone where far better drilled and organised in both games, widnes gave far too many penalties away..

had to move to the other side of the pitch today as couldnt stand listening to screaming featherstone fans, they started as soon as the ball was kicked off, it depresses me at how biased some people are, i just couldnt concentrate on the game, you could sense the agression that was rubbing off on the featherstone teams at times,, when the crowd was getting particulary annoyed with the ref and widnes defenders, the featherstone teams seemed to join in with them

[Ratboy]

Looks like we need to find some talented u15s and u16s,as not as good as last years teams.

[Waldorf]

Looks like we need to find some talented u15s and u16s,as not as good as last years teams.

What is it you find so amusing?

[Widnesacademy]

Looks like we need to find some talented u15s and u16s,as not as good as last years teams.

comments like these make me chuckle , these boys , thats boys , may not be winning like the previous years 15/16 year old's but the academy is all about development , Not how good or succesfull a 15/16 year old team is in a scholarship game. I would need to be an ocotpus to count the number of parents /spectators who I have heard tell me and others that this 15 year old and that 16 year old are going to be superstars for them to be lost to the game at 18/19 because they didn't develop or improve . The key to these scholarships and academy games is not winning its steady development of individuals .They may not seem the best now but we should judge when they have gone through the process and im sure each will have individual targets to reach , that is how they will be assessed not by how many games they win.

[Ratboy]

Rubbish they are getting smashed.At 15 you can see if got a step,speed,skill and can develop.

[Widnesacademy]

Rubbish they are getting smashed.At 15 you can see if got a step,speed,skill and can develop.

so by your own conclusion if you are getting smashed as a team at 15 you can determine whether a boy has not got what it takes to make it . And in essence if you dont see the speed , step the club might as well look for (as you put it ) more talented young men !!!  and im talking rubbish.
 I have first hand experience of a lad who at 13/14/15 had speed and a step to die for  he is now 4 stone heavier the speed he once had is at the moment diminishing due to his size and thus his step is not as effective . What i will tell you that in the next two years of his development that speed will return only instead of moving its once 11stone frame it will move 15 stone more . Imagine if the club decided your viewpoint was correct , how many youngsters would we lose and how many would keep  as result of your viewpoint just to watch as their seemingly talent at 15 got washed away in years to come . Development is what these academies are about and the most important points are potential, steady progression and attitude . simples not how many games they win during a scholarship programme.

[acetheviking]

I think results are a fair baromoter to use across all the games when comparing each team. Wigan are a class above this year with the super squad that they have pulled together and it has shown in results.

What the results will mask though which as Widnesacademy points out is the development of individual players throughout the set of games. Some will have impressed, shown signs of development even in defat and will get a pro deal but the majority I suspect will be back playing amateur or lost to the game which I suppose is a seperate but equally as sad issue.

It has been a disasterous year and nobody will want to be part of a 16's side that went winless however some will still get the opportunity to step up. Looking at the fact that we picked up 12 of last years unbeaten squad and I think 6 (?) of the foundation side from the year before that where beaten once its still fair to say that some will be picked up and go on and do well for the club with the extra benefits of being involved with the pro club.

Incidently we may also see more of them pop back up in the 18's at a later date after going back to play amaetur and building on their experiences at this level to date. We seem to be seeing more clubs at 18's level going back into the U17's at local level and NYL to pick up lads that had been cast off earlier by themselves or other clubs, Matty Norton seems to be a good exaple of this, having a storming year for us yet was if I remember correctly initially not signed on after the foundation games here.

[Ratboy]

so by your own conclusion if you are getting smashed as a team at 15 you can determine whether a boy has not got what it takes to make it . And in essence if you dont see the speed , step the club might as well look for (as you put it ) more talented young men !!!  and im talking rubbish.
 I have first hand experience of a lad who at 13/14/15 had speed and a step to die for  he is now 4 stone heavier the speed he once had is at the moment diminishing due to his size and thus his step is not as effective . What i will tell you that in the next two years of his development that speed will return only instead of moving its once 11stone frame it will move 15 stone more . Imagine if the club decided your viewpoint was correct , how many youngsters would we lose and how many would keep  as result of your viewpoint just to watch as their seemingly talent at 15 got washed away in years to come . Development is what these academies are about and the most important points are potential, steady progression and attitude . simples not how many games they win during a scholarship programme.

You will lose alot of players as a fair few wont be good enough.When i played against Andy Farrell i knew he would make it at 14 or 15 yrs of age.We have been tonked alot and 70-4 by Wigan shows the difference in ability, and now Featherstone beat us.Just because your at the club you are right. Players have left who where good enough and that is life. Anyway get rid of the rubbish and look for new talent in the barla league etc.

[Widnesacademy]

You will lose alot of players as a fair few wont be good enough.When i played against Andy Farrell i knew he would make it at 14 or 15 yrs of age.We have been tonked alot and 70-4 by Wigan shows the difference in ability, and now Featherstone beat us.Just because your at the club you are right. Players have left who where good enough and that is life. Anyway get rid of the rubbish and look for new talent in the barla league etc.

We also forget that last year 18's academy's first set of games where graded , then the second half of the seasons fixtures was determind on how well they did in the first half . Unfortunalty I dont think the scholarship games are setup like that . A 70-4 scoreline helps neither sets of players. They will get rid of the lads who dont make the grade but it wont be until they have had chance to improve and that can take until they are in they have turned into young men

[mcal]

It is all about developing and improving upon potential ability and whilst a heavy defeat can be deflating the trick is to learn and improve.
Dont forget the all conquering 188s of last lost their first ever Service area game by over 40 points.

[vikings 4 ever]

You will lose alot of players as a fair few wont be good enough.When i played against Andy Farrell i knew he would make it at 14 or 15 yrs of age.We have been tonked alot and 70-4 by Wigan shows the difference in ability, and now Featherstone beat us.Just because your at the club you are right. Players have left who where good enough and that is life. Anyway get rid of the rubbish and look for new talent in the barla league etc.

I agree to a certain extent with what you have said. We know all of the hype and praise that Widnes fans give when one of the age groups are doing well so it doesn't look great - especially considering by the marging of defeat to Wigan and also now a loss to Featherstone. IMO there is one thing to consider - it doesn't really matter if the u16's win or lose every match, the most important thing is to identify players that are good enough to develop into SL players. I remember in 2006, the u18's containing players like Rob Draper, Scott Yates, Dayne Donoghue, Martin Ainscough - they went the regular season unbeaten which was about 16 games. These players really stood out at u18's yet the vast majority haven't made it as far as what people had hoped. Obviously it would be great if we could bring through 5 or 6 players from each age group through to the 1st team level, but realisitically, even a successful junior side may only see 2 or 3 at who get a chance at 1st team and of those, how many make it long term? How many of Widnes' current 1st team have come through the ranks for example?

[Ratboy]

Agree what you say vikings 4 ever.Just getting smashed can not be good for confidence.All you need is one or two good enough to step up even though we would like all the youth to be good enough.

[acetheviking]

I agree to a certain extent with what you have said. We know all of the hype and praise that Widnes fans give when one of the age groups are doing well so it doesn't look great - especially considering by the marging of defeat to Wigan and also now a loss to Featherstone. IMO there is one thing to consider - it doesn't really matter if the u16's win or lose every match, the most important thing is to identify players that are good enough to develop into SL players. I remember in 2006, the u18's containing players like Rob Draper, Scott Yates, Dayne Donoghue, Martin Ainscough - they went the regular season unbeaten which was about 16 games. These players really stood out at u18's yet the vast majority haven't made it as far as what people had hoped. Obviously it would be great if we could bring through 5 or 6 players from each age group through to the 1st team level, but realisitically, even a successful junior side may only see 2 or 3 at who get a chance at 1st team and of those, how many make it long term? How many of Widnes' current 1st team have come through the ranks for example?

Results dont really matter at any level below the firsts, yet we are all still slightly obsessed by them instead of actually trying to see some development in the lads themselves.

The main aim of the 16's is purely to give lads of that age an opportunity to play in a more structured environment and ultimately from our perspective for a few to then feed into the 18's squad as natural replacements for those moving up again. That will still happen despite losing all their games. Players from this side will still get picked up, maybe 4 or 5 looking at the numbers from previous years and I bet we see some from other sides notably Wigan and Saints who cant possibly sign on all of their succesful squad.

Without going off topic too much here but Superleague will help us with the 15's and 16's further in the future. We will be far more attractive as a SL club in trying to pick up lads from outside the area and bring them into these squads. At present we are quite reliant on what we have in the town at that age group and on what seems like a good relationship we have with Bold Miners junior sides. We where lucky in some respects that last years Halton Hornets 16's where quite dominant at their age group and so the Widnes 16's in picking up a large majority where succesful too. This year both West Bank and Bold 16's of which the majority of our side is made up where mid - table sides and maybe that shows in some respects with the performances against other sides who have had the benefit of being able to pick up the best players from youth sides across all the counties. Despite that though there are some talented players in that squad who im sure with some more guidance and support open to them within the academy structure can develop further through the system.

Despite the results im sure all those who have played for the 16's will have benefited. A large portion of that side wont get a pro deal here but its a window for them to have seen what the standard is for them to reach and in turn go back to the NWC or NYL and reach that level and in turn get themselves picked again to play 18's.

[acetheviking]

I remember in 2006, the u18's containing players like Rob Draper, Scott Yates, Dayne Donoghue, Martin Ainscough - they went the regular season unbeaten which was about 16 games. These players really stood out at u18's yet the vast majority haven't made it as far as what people had hoped. Obviously it would be great if we could bring through 5 or 6 players from each age group through to the 1st team level, but realisitically, even a successful junior side may only see 2 or 3 at who get a chance at 1st team and of those, how many make it long term? How many of Widnes' current 1st team have come through the ranks for example?

Just thought I would cover this aspect aswell.

I think we made alot of mistakes with quite a few of those players in trying to develop them. More should have come through to the firsts than Shane Grady who was playing as a 16 year old in that side. I appreciate that we lost some talent through administration but I think in the end we lost some good players through the way they where handled.

We really where SL or nothing at the time and few young players got sustained runs in the side even after strong performances.

Things do genuinely seem to have changed for the better and we seem to have better understanding of how and more importantly why we are developing our own young talent. As such I think weve more chance of seeing anyone make it through to firsts at the moment whether they where part of an all conquering 18's side or a whitewashed 16's.

[halton viking]

Anyone know when the acadamies are next home? Only 18s on the website.